There is a small province in northeastern Thailand called Udon Thani. It’s the kind of place where John Rambo would retire. There, about 11,000 foreign men have descended, taken a Thai lady for a wife, and made that area their new home. I learned about this from a NY Times article via Angry Asian Man and, to be honest, I clicked on it with a slight motivation of disgust (or perhaps a desire to move there myself. I can’t remember). I really wanted to hate the contents of the article, thinking that it would just be a continued evolution of the 1960′s – foreign, western men getting their juicy fix of exotic Asian lady-love. I read and reread the article and watched the accompanying video several times too. As much as I was hoping to cry foul, I did not. In fact, to my surprise, I found myself becoming rather introspective about how creative people are willing to get to find their version of hope, love, and happiness (and I did this all while eating 2 hotdogs and a bag of Cheetos).
I understand this topic is a polarizing issue and has pissed off as many people as it has given pleasure to for decades. I, for one, am not a fan of rich people tempting the impoverished or the needy with their hard currency in exchange for sex or love or some sort of perverted version of love. Yes, there are “Man Tours” of Thailand and Latin America. Just go online and google it and you’ll find tours specializing in taking the Western man on an adventure of sightseeing, cultural exchange, and all you can eat foreign pussy. They’re great. Just kidding. I don’t leave for another two weeks. I’m not here to debate the morality of it or whether it is right or wrong. What makes this whole east/west/south sex, love, and money exchange so complex to understand is that there are so many different versions of it. But is it all bad (or good)? A slippery slope indeed but it’s something I find fascinating, especially this whole Udon Thani phenomenon…
11,000 foreign men living in Udon Thani? 11,000? That’s a lot of foreign men. That’s a lot of Thai wives. That’s a lot of humpy humpy going on between foreign men and Thai ladies. What the heck is going on? The first thing I found fascinating is that these foreign men were not going to Thailand, picking a lady of their liking, and importing them back to the safety of their Western democracies. No, these foreign men are living there. Udon Thani is their home. Why? Well, the forgiving optimist in me concludes this: economics. It’s no secret that it’s becoming harder and harder to feel financially secure for those of us who reside in developed, Western countries. Maybe not right now, but for many of us, the reality of a comfortable retirement in our later years will either be impossible or not so easily achieved. So it’s no coincidence that in areas like Costa Rica, Panama, Thailand, etc., there are western enclaves sprouting up, allowing it’s new residents a quality of life and tangible prosperity impossible in the land from which they came. A few years ago I went to Bangkok. A new, modern condo in the center of town with a river view was $80,000 (us). That nest made me moist. And in a place like Udan Thani, housing cost is much lower. So why slave over a mortgage for 30 years when you can sell your place, pack your bags, buy a spanking new pad in cash, and have a chunk of hard coin with ten times the purchasing power? Welcome To Thailand. It’s not for everyone but it’s becoming a more and more popular option for those westerners who are looking for an economically sensible life design without having to worry about money or the lack of it. And it also doesn’t hurt that places like Costa Rica and Thailand have incredibly cheap healthcare at or near western-level standards. So check one – these foreign men can roll like pimps in da club in Udon Thani. Or, to put it less ghetto, these foreign men, who are mostly older, can retire in tropical comfort instead of domestic poverty.
OK, so now that said foreign man has planted himself in Udon Thani and has easily acquired a modern palace to boot (pay no heed to the huts and shacks that surround his compound walls), what next? A nice girl to help round out and compliment his new digs, right? Isn’t that why said foreign man moved to the Thai sticks for in the first place? Well, luckily for the foreign man, it is a cultural norm in Udon Thani that he will take a Thai woman’s hand in marriage and welcome her into his hearth. So common a practice that there’s even a street called “Son-In-Law Street” where the now-local, foreign man can gather, commune, and dine with his other 11,000 now-local, foreign brothers and celebrate their new unions and good fortune. It’s Singha time! House? Check! Much younger Thai wife of Udon Thani heritage? Check! A lifetime of happiness and fulfillment for both foreign man and much younger Udon Thani, Thai wife? Uhh…perhaps on a case by case basis. About 50% of the relationships don’t work out (which is better than America’s divorce rate).
For the cynic, visions of a young, Udon Thani girl-wife servicing the sexual needs of the foreign man and his alabaster stock 24/7 while trapped in the confines of his newly-built erotic palace may come to mind. I hope not. And actually, I venture to guess, most likely less likely. Why? Well, unlike the sexual politics found on the seedy streets of Patpong Road in Bangkok, Patong Beach in Phuket, or Phnom Penh of neighboring Cambodia, the overall Udon Thani proposition is different (or so it seems). This may be a huge generalization, but a foreign man’s objective when traveling to these 3 said cities is to humpy humpy the exotic asian lass, while a foreign man’s goal when relocating to Udon Thani is to find a nice Thai wife with a fine rockin’ ass (ok, the last bit was inappropriate. but it rhymed so nicely). Call it love, call it companionship, call it what you will, but a union between the foreign man and the yellow woman in Udon Thani is a long term love affair and a far cry from the standard 15 minute tryst at the blowjob bar in Pattaya. For a foreign man to journey into the heart of Udon Thani with the hopes of capturing the fancy of one of it’s feminine singles, he must imbue himself with a desire far beyond just the carnal and be ready and willing to present a hall pass that reads: I Wish To Commit to you, my Thai flower… and to your entire family.
to love me is to love ALL of mi familia
That’s right. Unlike the rather selfish tales of western Harlequin Romances, a union between a foreign man and Udon Thani dame comes at a price – a substantial dowry and a promise to support her entire family (dogs, pigs, and fighting cocks too). The fine print of the Udon Thani marriage contract can be seen as either a good thing or a bad thing for the Udon Thani woman. Instead of focusing on the “bad things” (marrying for money, gold digging, etc…wait a second, are we talking about Thai women or western women of the big cities? i’m so confused), I am going to focus on the good. Call me an optimistic romantic, but such a matrimonial covenant definitely has it’s upsides. One being that an entire, extended bloodline (at least the living ones) can be lifted out of poverty with a simple “I Do”. Also, with an entire extended family living in the foreign man’s castle (or the huts and shacks surrounding his compound walls), the wife has a live-in insurance policy, minimizing physical, mental, or sexual abuse from her new foreign hubby. If said foreign man raises a hand to strike his Thai butterfly or demands a type of sex that she finds unholy or rectally painful, cousin Angaraka, who just happens to be a kick boxing champion and sports the hard body and fist of Tony Jaa, will instantly leap to her rescue and dislodge the penis of the foreign man with the speed and precision of a tan ninja. But this will be nothing compared to the mental trauma experienced when Angaraka forces the foreign man to watch his own penis being eaten by his pride of fighting cocks. Don’t fuck with the Thai’s. They have cocks that can eat your cock.
"Fuck with me and I'll snap your cock off!"
So, foreign man relocates to Udon Thani in search of Thai girl. Thai girl awaits in Udon Thani to meet the right foreign man. It just works. Both parties want something but both must give something to get some of that thing that we’re all looking for. And what is that thing? Hope, happiness, a reason to get up in the morning, etc. At the end of the day, no matter how odd a couple may appear or how strange the circumstance for which they met, if both parties have more smiles and laughs than frowns and weeps while together, who’s to say that such a pairing can’t be a good thing? Yes, this whole topic is fraught with moral landmines that could busy an ethnic studies class for years. I’m not saying that it’s good. But then again, I’m not saying that it’s bad. For sure, the underbelly of the whole Vietnam/Korea GI boom boom long time thing makes many people gag (as well as smile). The gooey ejaculate from America’s/Europe’s military past still brings a sour taste to the mouth’s of certain parties when encountering something with a similar appearance. Which makes the NY Times article all the more interesting. As much as it has a look and feel of history’s not so glorious moments, Udon Thani is something different. For in the Udon Thani reality of today, there seems to be more (and I use this word very cautiously) of an even exchange (again, very cautiously) between foreign man and asian woman. Where as in the past, the balance was much, much more skewed in favor of the foreign guy. At least that’s what it seems like without the benefit of actually visiting Udon Thani personally or being able to travel back in time to hang out with some GI’s during shore leave.
are you rooking at me?
If you have time, read the article and watch the video. See how you feel. Do you think the relationship politics in Udon Thani is that far different than the relationship politics of modern, western society? Are the foreign men of Udon Thani really all that different than your guy friends? What about the Thai women? Are they really all that different when compared to the dating women in let’s say NYC, LA, SF, London, or Paris?
actually, these “occidentals” are pretty stupid to move to a foreign country. but that’s probably due to their chauvinism, like it was shown in the video with the douche saying how Thai women are ‘traditional’ like 50 years ago.
if they’re smart about it, they could’ve just remained in NYC, LA, SF, London or Paris. because in those cities the Asian woman and her extended family will take care of the occidental.
you can see it in any immigrant Asian family where they bend over to serve occidental’s whims on hand and foot. it’s an honor for the Asian female to have married a white man, because they have finally arrived at becoming ‘real Americans’ by having their daughter change her last name to an occidental one.
that is true love and devotion, whereas the Thai women in Udon Thani are like your average Beverly Hills golddiggers: plain mercenaries.
Why aren’t there ever any places that cater to the 50 year old corporate woman who puts off her family for her career?I mean if all the Thai women are married to old white dudes, what’s left for the Thai men??
@ Shannon
There is a place for 50 yr. old European decent ladies in heat. It’s called Bali. Seriously.
@Shannon: ever heard of Thai lady boys?
Actually traveling thru those provinces of Thailand last year, Udon included, I was surprised by the number of foreigners I heard about but hardly saw. It may sound like its overrun by “white” foreigners like its Phuket but really everyone keeps to themselves with their own farms/property.
The simple facts are that most Thai women you would find at those sex shows in Patpong come from this province because it is one of the poorest in Thailand. They also get treated the worst because of their dark complexion. In Asia, the darker you are, the more likely you are a farmer and work in the fields under the sun all day. But with this province, you are also bordering Cambodia where there is a mixture of Thai/Cambodia families.
So do you complain about these old “white” Westerners marrying “our” Asian women when you never cared in the first place? Or just be glad that the poorest area in Thailand is improving? ohhh the humanity.
if you’re going out on a limb to the “joy luck club feminist ideology” about ‘our women’ then we might as well ask why are you so racist against Asian-Americans to cast them as the perpetual foreigners?
while the Asians in Asia can be despicable, like all people, are you going to cast Asians in the USofA the same as the Asian ones?
while nobody cares about what consenting adults do, it is the very real effect of racist colonial structure that’s being targeted here. how is this any different than the history of Asian being subjected to sexual conquest?
Whores galore will attract big time bores!!!
Sorry to ruin the party with a “serious” comment. I don’t necessarily think this part is true:
“One being that an entire, extended bloodline (at least the living ones) can be lifted out of poverty with a simple “I Do”. Also, with an entire extended family living in the foreign man’s castle (or the huts and shacks surrounding his compound walls), the wife has a live-in insurance policy, minimizing physical, mental, or sexual abuse from her new foreign hubby. ”
If the foreign husband is providing for the entire extended family, they might prefer to have the wife stay in an abusive relationship rather than risk losing their newfound resources through divorce. As I see it, these relationships don’t even come close to equality.
@Ike: they probably have divorce laws that goes 50-50. many a white man has learned the hard way after divorcing an Asian woman that they aren’t as meek and submissive when it comes down to money.
only during the initial stages to get the goods. afterwards, you can be sure you got you by the balls
Thanks for this article, Roger. I agree that the dynamics around relationships like this are complex.
Two quotes come to mind:
“The most terrible poverty is loneliness, and the feeling of being unloved.” — Mother Teresa
“There is no honor in poverty.” — Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 106
I was in Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia, this summer; I’m sure we were paying a premium since it was a resort town, but a plate of food at a restaurant was $3, a 1-hour (legitimate) massage was $12 (I was a baller and gave $15
), and condos started at $60,000, with the top ones in a new development being $100,000.
With these three considerations, I entirely understand why this phenomenon is happening.
In addition, I hear more and more Western couple retirees are heading to SE Asia just to live since their dollars go so much further.
I should also mention that taking the “long view,” or the historical view, the notion of marrying “purely for love” is a modern Western one that didn’t even have much significance in the West until perhaps a hundred or so years ago, and even now, it’s more of an ideal than an actuality (the stable, lasting ones, anyway). In every culture, politics, economics, survival, and social conformity have always been considered legitimate reasons to marry. The question is whether we have the courage to honestly and explicitly discuss these factors.
As for the issue of abuse and power imbalance, that’s an empirical question that needs empirical study. As for the principal of the phenomenon itself, and the exchange described, it seems pretty reasonable and equitable. Sure, situations like this aren’t “ideal” by modern standards, but as Aristotle first observed back in the day, sometimes you have to settle for “second-best” solutions which people are actually capable of achieving.
well said M.C. stay stealthy…
A little late, but most of these women are ethnically Lao — often referred to as Isan or Isaan. In return for neutrality (Franco-Siamese War 1893), Siam gave land they annexed from the former Lan Xang (Lao Kingdom) to the French (now Laos) that was incorporated into French Indochina with Vietnam and Cambodia in the latter half of the 18th century.
There are more Lao/Isan people in Thailand than there are in Laos, 20 million to 6 million, I believe. But the Isan people in Thailand have been put through Thaification, the process by which they stripped those people of their writing system and made them revert to the Thai writing system. A bit similar, but very different.
The only reason they have kept their language and their distinction as a minority is through Laotian folk music, also known as Mor Lam, which has flourished and evolved as a popular genre in Thailand. They gave up on trying to get rid of it.
Anyway, if you didn’t already know, most bar flies (like Roger’s above pix) in Phuket and Pattaya come from poor regions of Isan to work as prostitutes or laborers. I think Anson mentioned something about complexion, and how the darker ones usually stay at the bottom of the food chain in Asia. In Thailand specifically — it’s almost like a modern day caste in the subtle sense like they have in India (even though they claim it’s illegal now), and most of the females of that region can barely read and write.
It makes very economic sense to live there, or anywhere else in a developing 3rd Tier country. More economic opportunities and a healthier (mentally and financially) standard of living. And to me it’s just globalization at work. Whether they are sex tourists or just some old fucks that can’t put up with independent women anymore — perhaps. Maybe not all. It was bound to happen.
I think it’s still exploitation. What they didn’t mention in the article were the foreigners who married girls that were illegal or barely legal according to western standards. You can marry at 15 with special consent, and as low as 12 to 13 in some hill tribes (I can hear people packing their bags).
One thing you can always do as a poor, young girl with no identification is lie about your age. Who is keeping track? Many of those barflies and prostitutes in Pattaya and Phuket lie about their age just to go work in those industries.
You get a head start in life. =)
Thanks Roger for bringing out your insight in this debateful topic in Asian communities. I am glad you bring out two sides of issues. especially .what about Thai men dating option if all these Thai women marry white men. Then agian the NYT article did surmise a Thai women who is married to a Thai man for love.
That article also mention that these poor Thai women desire the foreign white man for money and economic security. These women find out later that not every other white man is rich and soon have the 50 percent divorce rate like the US. Now I am sympathizing with these white guys who married these Asian money grubbers golddiggers ?????
@Don: they deserve each other
While it’s quite possible that no one will ever read this comment, for the sake of completeness (and my insomnia), I’ll make one last point in response to MM above.
The idea of 18 or 19 or 21 or 25 or whatever being the minimum marrying age for women (and men) is also a relatively modern, developed-world concept. Not so long ago, 14 year-old “women” married older gentlemen in England without anyone batting an eye, it happened all over the place in Europe and Asia, and tribes throughout the world accepted and encouraged this as well.
It may not be appropriate to impose modern developed-world morality on poor developing nations who, frankly, can’t afford the morality we can. So again, we ask ourselves, what’s exploitation? And assuming there’s no abuse involved and both sides (and possibly their families) benefit, who’s exploiting who?
I’m still disgusted by the concept.
I am still offended that it is always white men who are subjected to the incessant asian male insecurities. The truth is that it is ASIAN MEN who are leading the way with the exploitation of asian women AND WITHOUT ANYONE’S HELP – WHITE, BROWN, BLACK OR OTHERWISE. Asian men are experts at trafficking, pimping, abusing, and generally commodifying women. And I might point out that this Asian male penchant for commodifying women is not limited to just asian women – they bring over white women too. Korean men are NOTORIOUS for pimping out Russian women. YEP– even while they proclaim that “Korean women are the best” they are workin’ it hard to get that white nookie.
In the end, all the bullshit about white men abusing asian women will come to light. The truth is this: Asian men are not only obsessed with asian women, but they commodify them and pimp them out better than anyone in the world.
Hmm, I guess that means that asian men “offend me — and you also offend my (russian) family.” Further, we all know about Korean men buying southeast asian wives and then ditching them.
I would say this: you asian men keep your grubby hands off of our Russian women. You make me sick coming in and thinking that you own these women, feeling like you’re the king just because you have more money that them. [this paragraph more an exercise in showing how asian men are hypocritical than anything else.]
Have a great day.
Uh jellybear…you made some good points but you can’t just paint all Asian men with the same brush.
Roger, thanks for posting this–very interesting piece. Wealth is so much a matter of perspective…..
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The driving force behind this dynamic in Thailand is mainly economic. The racial difference between the men and women is obvious, but they can keep us from ignoring other instances of exploitation. More prostitution actually happens on the southern border of Thailand than in Bangkok and the customers are mostly Chinese Malaysians and Malays. In Bangkok, there are entire streets devoted to providing prostitutes to Japanese men. And if you want to see old Chinese men with young Russian prostitutes (for the novelty of it) just head to Chocolate Bar in Beijing near Ritan Park.
But I admit that economics can’t explain everyday dating prejudice against Asian men. That has much more to do with popular representations of Asians in the media, which is where you come in Justin!
It doesnt really matter what you think of it – the simple fact is that 11,000 (so we are told) have done it.
Without a doubt nearly all have taken this step because they are sick and tired of worn out, pasty faced, boring western women who are certainly NOT doing much to improve their own levels of equality.
The western women in the main still see men as their anchors and at the same time demand more and more economic support from their western male consorts.
I remember hearing / reading about women’s comments along the lines “well if he had all of the services I provide and if he didnt have me as his wife he would have to hire a maid and pay money” etc
In the long run it would be a damn sight cheaper to do that, to hire a maid, and for some of these guys they get beautiful young (adult) females who look after them and in return they provide economic support – and often to the extended family – and for a lot less money than they have / had to pay for the pasty faced boring western wife.
Marriage in the west is simply a form of legalised prostitution but with the deck stacked in favour of the pasty faced money lusting western women.
I say good luck to all the 11,000 old farts – and just think of the lovely repetitive sex they are having with youthful females – better than that old bag who lies (and I mean LIES) next to you in Manhattan / Pittsburg etc.
DO yourself a favour and ditch the bitch and run off to Thailand and start having a lovely life!!!
Les, you bitter, little man – your repeated commentary about, “pasty faced boring money lusting western women” says everything about you, & how little you have to offer those women, & nothing valid about western women. “Pasty faced” – ha, ha ha, you little fetishist…
It’s not just the older men heading into Thailand, with social media facebook and the like many younger men are connecting with the thai females in these regions and headinf for a vist, many turned off by western women.
I have 2 friends in their late 20′s who both met women from Udon Thani online, met them and their familes and are “dating” having met the women who also are in their late 20′s they are normal both work for mobile co’s AIS I believe and are University educated etc, families are city people and prefer their daughters marry a foreigner rather than a useless lazy thai guy who wont value a female, take a mistress get you pregnant and take off? this is what the uncle told me and is a huge trend with thai guys in Udon, knock you up and many others and bolt.
IMO these girls are smart and looking to improve theor lives and change the course of their family history not to mention they are becoming so westernized via social media, and the internet….have you been to Udon lately?
have you seen the young people? I’d say the local men are scewed as they will be losing mosr of their women to a new younger savy crop of young western males, who in turn are not gettign bar girls at all but great normal smart hardworking women.
I am an old fart who has spent a couple of years in hailand mostly the essan area and I don’t mind being exploited by nubile feminine darlings as compared to
obese, miserable, complaining sexually repressed bitches in Australia.
Well said Anthony, but you did leave out the adjective ” snake ugly” I’m just speaking from the U.S. perspective…Can’t say that’s true about the women from Australia….