Outspoken director Spike Lee (Malcolm X) has never had the highest opinion of the work of fellow African American filmmaker Tyler Perry (best known for his Madea series), which Lee has said is stereotypical “coonery and buffoonery.” Apparently, Perry has had enough of Lee’s bad-mouthing because at a press conference for his latest film this week, he had some uncharacteristically harsh words for Lee.
“I’m so sick of hearing about damn Spike Lee,” Perry said. “Spike can go straight to hell! You can print that. I am sick of him talking about me, I am sick of him saying, ‘this is a coon, this is a buffoon.’…Spike needs to shut the hell up!”
Perry continued to say: “I’ve never seen Jewish people attack Seinfeld and say ‘this is a stereotype,’ I’ve never seen Italian people attack The Sopranos, I’ve never seen Jewish people complaining about Mrs. Doubtfire or Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie. I never saw it. It’s always black people, and this is something that I cannot undo…I’m sick of it from us. We don’t have to worry about anybody else trying to destroy us and take shots because we do it to ourselves.”
Now, Perry raises some interesting points, which I’d like to discuss in the context of the Asian American community. But first, let me just point out some issues I have with parts of Perry’s statement. I realize he most likely said these things in the heat of the moment, but there’s inaccuracies that I don’t think we should just gloss over.
Perry’s point seems to be that other ethnic groups do not criticize the work of those in their own community and that this is a phenomenon unique to the African American community. I think there’s plenty of evidence to suggest this isn’t true. Even the examples Perry cites are problematic: Italian Americans have criticized projects like The Sopranos for perpetuating stereotypes and there are Jews who’ve had issues with what they perceived as Seinfeld’s “self-hating Jewishness.” And if no Jews complained about Mrs. Doubtfire, it’s probably because no one considers that to be a “Jewish” film.
And certainly when it comes to our own community, there’s been no reluctance to do the same. Asian Americans were at the forefront of the protests against the “white-washing” in M. Night Shyamalan’s The Last Airbender, my fellow Offender Quentin recently blogged about his issues with Elaine Kim’s new documentary Slaying the Dragon Reloaded and there were those who attacked my fellow Offender Justin’s Better Luck Tomorrow for portraying Asians in a “negative” light.
In general, as I’ve written before, I think healthy and constructive self-criticism is not only important, but vital to our growth as artists—both collectively and individually. And it’s naïve to think that just because we share the same skin color or background or even culture, that we’re all going to think monolithically and share the same opinions.
But I do understand where Perry is coming from with his frustration. At some point, the criticism from your own peeps does occasionally cross over into territory where it does start to serve a more negative purpose. Let me use the 1994 ABC sitcom All-American Girl as an example of this.
Created as a vehicle for comedian Margaret Cho, the show mostly revolved around her character’s conflicts with her more traditional Korean family. At the time, it was billed as the first Asian American family sitcom on network prime-time. The show was also relentlessly attacked by the Korean/Asian American community for its stereotypes and “inauthenticity.”
I don’t think the series was as good as it could’ve been with someone as talented as Cho in the lead, but quality issues aside, the disapproval from the community seemed to go beyond that—every small detail came under intense scrutiny: from the Asian cast members not being Korean to the fact the family didn’t take their shoes off when entering the house to the “wrong” design on one of the prop vases. All the while, Cho was struggling very hard to gain more control of the creative direction of the show (not to mention, destroying her health with the network’s weight-loss “demands”) and I know all the difficulties were compounded for her by the lack of support from the community. It seemed like a no-win scenario. In the end, the show was cancelled during its first season.
Was there a way for the community to constructively criticize the show while still supporting Cho and others who were trying to address the concerns and improve things? I’d like to think so. But if TV executives were already reluctant about putting Asian faces on prime-time TV in any significant way, after All-American Girl, it became that much harder. Why subject yourself to all those accusations of racism for very little return?
I remember a few years after All-American Girl when I started working in TV and a friend was putting together a pilot at one of the networks (the show never made it to air). One of the regular characters was to be an Asian American TV weatherman who was very much like Neil Patrick Harris’ character in How I Met My Mother. The guy was a ladies’ man who had incredible luck with women, but was not the brightest bulb in the room. He was a very charming character who could potentially steal all the scenes he was in. But the studio refused to cast an Asian actor in the part. They were afraid the Asian American community would be offended by the character and kept referencing the All-American Girl experience as one they didn’t want to go through. Our argument that this was exactly the type of non-stereotypical character the community would embrace fell on deaf ears.
I’m not saying that we should blindly support anything just because it’s Asian American. The truth is a lot of the work we produce is shit and we need to challenge ourselves to do better. However, I think there’s still a healthy balance that we haven’t quite hit upon yet. But curious to know what others think about this topic.
Here’s the Spike Lee interview where he talks about Tyler Perry and “buffoonery:”











Minefield, that entertainment field. Esp when it comes to color.
Steal My Idea — Asian All-American Family sticom: all A’s, APIs, hapas, etc. This way all bases, countriesand stereotypes are covered — AND MAY BE LAUGHED AT.
Providing work for all. Me. Thank you. Just give me credit for idear.
anybody want to steal my idea for a sit com?
logline: “Tiger Mom” gets criticized for not being authentic enough by the Asian-American community and goes to China to get first hand knowledge of how real Chinese mothers operate; hilarity follows as she learns to play mahjong and eat chicken feet.
Everyone who isn’t white experiences self-hatred. It’s the “Imitation of Life” syndrome. Having said that, Asian American media is generally one dimensional. No one I know is interested, Asian Americans included. We need to make movies that are less predictable. Our job is to entertain. Not bore people with the same shit.
Hi, Norith. Thanks for starting the dialogue on being truthful.
I think that’s the #1 missing ingredient in most Asian-American films: truth and sincerity.
The way I’m seeing it is replace “APA films” with “chop suey” and it’s the same concept. Asian filmmakers want to sell movies chop suey (which is cool), but their largest potential market are whites so that means they make it palatable to white mainstream tastes by adding fake ingredients.
Meanwhile, the Asian customers are like it’s not really Chinese food so why is the marketing using disingenuous guilt trip tactics to get you to buy the chop suey? “Support our film chop suey because it’s made by Asians,” they say; but you know there’s something missing and at the end of the day you don’t want to go back for more.
Good point, chunk$. We don’t go back for more because we know what it is before we even go there.
I love Korean films because they’re so unpredictable. Kim Ki Duk’s “Time” is one of the best movie I’ve ever seen. “Mother” is an excellent movie. “I Saw the Devil” is one hell of a movie that came out this year.
If we made movies like that, we would get the love. Because those movies have balls. And they’re great stories. Period.
well in some regards, Asians in Asia don’t have the racial issues to deal with. for the most part they can just film whatever they want. but for Asians living in the Occident there are complications in our thought patterns…
I’m just glad those movies with the AF finding salvation with a WM savior who rescues her from the evil AM patriarchy theme have stopped.
as for S.Korean cinema: I think anything directed by Chang-dong Lee or has Kang-ho Song acting should be required viewing for fans of “serious” Korean movies.
“13 Assassins” was the best Asian movie of 2010. lol
but maybe that’s the point, we’re storytellers, and we should tell stories and not whine about cultural shit, which becomes political and boring… Korean films are rich in storytelling, the HK films of the 90′s were rich in storytelling… that should be the first priority, to tell good stories… whatever is personal about you will come out through this story, it doesn’t need to be forced.
I agree the central focus shouldn’t be about race or political issues, but I also don’t think stories exist in a vacuum.
I love to drag up Amy Tan (and now Amy Chua), and the kind of BS chinkology they pander to their chop suey white audiences.
At the other extreme we might as well be making Justin Bieber movies. lol much love to John Chu, but there has always been many behind the scenes Asian people making “white people movies” in the past.
Joy Luck Club bored me into a near coma. But all power to her. I don’t like that 99% of popular movies have white people in them. But it will all change at some point. White people just don’t pop babies at the same rate and one day
the common point of view wont be white anymore. Btw, I saw the trailer to 13 Assassins. Looks pretty cool.
well, it probably won’t be an asian american point of view, either. asian people “pop babies” at about the same rate as whites do, with alot more interracial mixing going on. if anything, it will probs be a hapa-latin american point of view.
As usual Tyler Perry is wrong. Italians HAVE attacked The Sopranos, and Jersey Shore. A group called UNICO held a series of talks by prominent Italian-American academics, businessmen and journalists for the sole purpose of protesting MTV’s Jersey Shore and attacking it’s producer Tom DeSanto, a fellow Italian American.
Jews attacked Sarah Silverman and Dr Schlessinger, both Jews themselves.
What Tyler Perry doesn’t like is that the media gives his coonery a pass, and most African Americans in Hollywood know that the mostly white studio execs who bankroll his bullcrap adore the living hell out of Perry because he gives them a smokescreen from behind which they’ve ushered in a new era of minstrel shows.
These are also the same white suits who black actors must get the approval of if they want to work in that town. So although most if not all blacks in Hollywood can’t stand Perry Spike Lee is the only one whose gone on camera and has the guts to say what must be said.
I can’t speak to Asian Americans about what they should do regarding their own filmmakers, but as for Tyler Perry you’d be a fool if you actually believe this clown when he says no other ethnic groups criticizes their own.
That’s what happens when you live in a bubble furnished by bigots and populated by an, obese, self-indulgent, sellout.
Echoing Norith’s 10:38am comments…
Pick, write and shoot a story that is completely unrelated to ethnicity or cultural background and simply cast against the norm. It’s a start.
But this issue, is a far greater one that is effected by more than just the filmmakers and (arguably) narrow storytelling… we have few filmmakers, few talent (read:actors), few writers, few everything. And that includes audience. And when we refer to “audience,” it’s not just Asians in the audience, it’s “an” audience. But, if we simply looked at the Asian audience, in particular what we are really caring about here (in America), there just simply aren’t the numbers to pull through for anything too particular story-wise. As a whole or as an interested party. Thus, we will continue to squander.
Now we can go around all day arguing this is simply speculation… but here’s more speculative thought…
American Black cinema is a good format to compare with. Let’s face it, if we do a Perry or Ice Cube type comedy, we’re not really going to get anywhere. The money just won’t back it up. Assuming we aren’t referring to micro-budget, DVD and VOD release. There could be something there, but I’m not doing the numbers on it.
But, take Spike or Singleton… they started out with a strong voice for “their” people, but managed to stay mainstream without too much of a heavy focus (at a certain point). Then again, if Spike makes a flick that is ultra-mainstream, he might still cast a Black lead (ex: Denzel). We need to manage records like this. I think a halfway decent (and that’s half-full mentality) example of this is Justin Lin. They may not be leads, but he eases in a familiar face or two in his projects. (setting aside all the mainstream bashing of the “franchise”). Or, take Quentin Lee. His latest (The People I Slept With) could easily have been made without any familiar faces and attacked an issue that is universally sound.
On a last note, it’s my personal opinion that we start small, and that’s with talent. Write and shoot stories in genre that have little to nothing to do with culture or stereotype, but simply cast diversely. Include an Asian face or two (preferably against the norm) and help them out. We don’t have enough of them. That $200k thriller or horror flick you just wrote could have an Asian lead or co-star that shines. Remember that.
@Ken: lol I loved that BOONDOCKS “PAUSE” episode.
@Mr. A: I disagree that there are few talents out there. I lived on both coasts and any cattle call will have Asian actors lining up to the next block.
There are plenty of writers and directors too, in addition to all the behind the camera crew and even APAs in the media corporate office.
The issue is how you get the Stockholm syndrome Asians to stop watching and purchasing white media? There are plenty of Asian money out there, but I think the trend is still Asians consume the same media as whites and purchase the same products as advertised in white media.
No executive is going out of their way to include Asians when they they already have the demographic dialed in to what they want to sell.
I’m definitely with you on that the ultimate goal is truly “colorblind casting” but face it reality is that we aren’t going to get there anytime soon.
I agree it’s wonderful some of the current generation of APA directors are including some more Asian faces, but from the bean-counters’ view they’ll still find excuses to say Asians aren’t marketable. They’ll never say that whites aren’t marketable when movies flop, but they’ll use that excuse everytime for Asians.
So that’s why from a purely money perspective I don’t think those $200K horror/thriller flicks are going to have Asian leads, even when they are made by Asians.
For instance, I was some what taken back by this viral video that had lots of websites lit up with buzz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLmsiaN5dZM
Guess who the creators were?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCxtpQVV6zc
So like I wrote above: there have been plenty of Asians, but it’s how to create movies with “universal themes” that address APA issues but aren’t the central focus?
@Mr. A: i wrote a long winded reply, but it’s apparently being censored for some reason.
this is the problem with Asians: we can’t even be honest with ourselves even on simple issues and resort to censorship of dissenting voices.
you’re right: write for white people if you want to make money.
i think that spike lee has forgotten just how much tyler perry has done for the black man dressed as an old fat lady community.
Hollywood doesn’t cast Asian american leads in their movies because they think that the ” general population” won’t be able to relate or empathize with an Asian actor. Therefore Asian actors are typecasted in to the roles of geishas, gangsters and geeks. In my opinion this only perpetuates the on going stereotypes about Asians and makes them seem as “outsiders”. It’s pretty messed up. Did anyone hear about how Hollywood is doing a movie adaption of the anime Akira? With an all white cast…? Disapointing
Feo: definitely for your next interpretations entry you should dress up as an old fat black lady. we’re striving for colorblindness afterall.
@Alessandra: I’m glad you brought up AKIRA, since I was going to try to link Prince’s youtube video at some point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3jriLW8o7A
that’s 11% of the audience are Asians (4.7% of the US population) who paid for white leading actors.
they’ll always cast “Asian” actors from Asia, but once again it’s how you get the APA voice out there?
Thanks for the link chunk$! I was planning on boycotting AKIRA anyway. There’s no way Robert Pattinson( or any other of the actors they have chosen)can do it justice.
On a side note, I do agree with Spike Lee on the fact that Tyler Perry’s movies are boofonery and that they portray African Americans in a bad way. Very few of the caracters in his movies display intelligence or positive lifestyles. I think that as long as an African American is making movies with these characteristics it will give non African Americans the justification to discriminate against us. Being part Black myself, I have dealt with this type of racism. It’s no fun trying to convince your classmates that you do not eat fried chicken on a regular basis.
Love the article/blog! I just wanted to add that when you said, “I don’t think the series was as good as it could’ve been with someone as talented as Cho in the lead”. The reality is, yes, shes amazingly talented. And she wanted to make that show as “Korean family real” as possible but the network shut her down like crazy on a bunch of her ideas.. sucks. All in all, if she had enough control of the script/show as she should’ve gotten and the network just trusted her on it, I really think the show would’ve been crazy successful. :/
After reading this, I’m convinced that pretty much EVERYBODY here had some great points regarding the issue. I’ve never seen any of Perry’s films, and I’ve seen about four of Spike’s films, so it’s hard for me to make a real opinion about this.
In regards to Asian Americans being our own worst enemies in terms of film progress and representation, I agree with Norith and chunk@ that we not only need to really just make movies for the sake of stories while leaving behind the cultural baggage that we tend to want to flush out, but we need find a way for our group of folks (APAs in general) to support it. The cultural baggage we all have is unfortunately pushing us to overcompensate in terms of assimilation, and from there, we eventually find ourselves supporting movies like “Limitless” and some random rom-com with white folk we’ll never hope to be (As Prince and Phil remind us either on video or in a blog, respectively), as well making shit APA films like “Joy Luck Club”, and others.
The success of HK films like “A Better Tomorrow” among arthouse / cult American film fans laid on the shoulders of telling a universal story of brotherhood with the unique accent of being Asian in Asia (plus the action helped too). Obviously, like others have pointed out, we APAs here in the states don’t have the luxury of being the majority unlike, well, our Asian counterparts in Asia, but they seemed to be able to get across these ideas to wide swaths of audiences. Just go to Twitchfilm.com and see how many of their writers LOVE asian film. It’s incredible!! I just think we need to be brave, let go of our cultural baggage, cast diversely, write with a very universal theme in mind, and just make a goddamn movie. I know I’m oversimplifying things, but that’s what I think.
All I’m saying is, let’s not do the same shit, and that goes for every filmmaker out there. Pretend I’m a deadly child who will rip your fucking head off if you can’t tell me a good bed time story by midnight.
@Chunk
I argue that there isn’t enough marketable talent out there. And in no way am I pointing to leads, that comes from the audience. You can line up “talent” in droves for a casting call for any role and get lines out the door. In fact, you can do that for extras. If you give me 100 calls for a role but none of them have what it takes, I’m left with the select few that do. Thus, our pool is small. Additionally, you need recognizable talent. We simply have to work with what we have already. Yes, this is easily countered by saying we are then leaving the future talents with little ground to break on. We have to start somewhere.
I’d leave out those in suits to help us out. The industry is clearly fucked as it is and we have to look at it as one entity and not single out those of us who may have positions within said entity. That is, unless you can convince a studio to cast an Asian lead in a big budget Hollywood film. Of course, we can argue ‘til we’re blue in the face about the numbers after the fact, because we simply won’t pull them in. But, it’d be a start. They’re not willing to invest long term. Another aspect of that is the idea that we’re easily replaceable from the start in a story that was made about one of us. Cases in point being Airbender and the soon to be Akira (as noted by some here already). It’s all money at the end of the day. Even if we had a benefactor on our side who was willing to personally invest in Akira and have it made in Japan with all Japanese faces, it might even be good, but will it bring in the numbers? In this case, I point to Cameron with his big screen version of Battle Angel. Let’s see what happens there. Aside from many things I could rant about Cameron that I dislike, he might come through and be our champion. For a day. Then we will have to see if anyone opens their eyes and thinks we’re marketable or if it’s just Cameron they see.
I agree, no executive will invest in something when they know their demographic is already easily met. We can still stay outside the system in this case.
On Colorblind casting… yes, yes we are getting there sometime soon. We can’t walk up and start throwing ourselves in leads, we both know it won’t sell. But, the co-star, the best friend, another strong role in the project? Easily done. Just do it. And we both know it won’t have a negative impact. The idea is to be seen, period.
Flops… etc. $200k flicks with Asian leads or co-stars, if you’re expecting a return well above seven figures to begin with, you’re out of your mind. However, if you make a rich film for $200k that has good story and/or simply make something different and watchable with decent to good talent, it will do fine. The DVD market will still hold for it (or the unfortunate future of VOD). Thinking that they aren’t going to have leads or co-stars isn’t where I’m at with this. They aren’t going to do it. We have to. And we can do it, and we can make it work. I’m saying, this is where a good start is, really and truly.
Your last notation, Universal Themes, yes. Universal Themes that manage APA issues but aren’t the central focus, no. I’m saying leave anything cultural aside. Leave the familiarity that is solely placed on an APA background aside. If you display something that everyone gets, everyone understands, then you have something. Shoot something that that mass will understand and will want to see, regardless of background. It’s not hard to find that struggle that people in general can identify with and happen to have a familiar face a part of it.
We know the challenges we face. There are ways to get around them. I’m not saying we can get around them today with a $20M budget and $40M return, but we start small. Things can change if we don’t feel defeated before we even begin.
Kane is echoing similar ideas in a simplified manner in his last couple of sentences. Just better put!
@Mr. A: I think we first need to agree on exactly what is “talent.” From what I’m seeing there are no shortage of talented Asians behind the camera or in front of the camera.
there’s also the matter that having “talent” doesn’t necessarily mean getting casted in that “small pool” in your mind.
(I love dissing on Ken Jeong not only for Mr.Chow, but he’s also a one trick pony. And I groan everytime I see Grace Park trying to cry. lol)
so if you want some recognizable face because you think they’re “bankable” then that’s another issue altogether.
heck, for white actors the pool of those truly “talented” are small as well. but that doesn’t stop the suits from casting the teeny boppers.
in terms of “the token Asian BFF of the white protagonist,” we are already seeing it and there’s been an explosion of such race neutral roles. Hawaii Five-0 has the most exposure right now. I was also surprised SUCKER PUNCH didn’t even feature a BF along with Jamie Chung. And of course FF#5 will have Sung Kang again.
It’s great there are more Asian faces, but I think there’s a history that’s being glossed over by not having the Asian version of GODFATHER – hardly anybody knows about the Golden Dragon Restaurant massacre, or the largest public lynching in the US were not blacks Chinese immigrants in Los Angeles. Of course, nobody really knows about the 442nd, Maj. Kurt Chew-Een Lee, Col. Young Oak Kim, Capt Francis B Wai…
I think that’s where the Asian version of GLORY would do wonders for the perception that Asians are just as integral to US history as any other immigrant populations. heck, since it’s 150 years: there were even Asians involved in the Civil War on both sides too.
We don’t need to go more into the start small and build up and make universal themed movies; we’re all in agreement there.
I don’t know the numbers, but my guess is given the “track record” that most investors would hesitate to invest $200K with almost no returns. Whatever happened with Justin Lin’s FINISHING THE GAME? I thought that was a brilliant movie.
And there were some great little indies with Greg Pak, Michael Kang and several others that never saw the light of day again.
Were production costs recouped at least, and what’s happening from all those folks and making new movies? That’s where somebody has to seriously look at is the $200K going to be invested?
I believe even the youtubers like Wong Fu and Ryan Higa are not completely living off the ad money and are selling t-shirts and the college tour circuit.
@Chunk
I’m not sure I’m seeing this no shortage of talent in front or behind the camera… perhaps addressing “talent” is where we are lacking in our discussion. Perhaps I’m missing what you’re seeing, because I’m simply not seeing it.
I have no qualms with the dis against Jeong. And like you said, there’s ample non-Asian actors out there that are one-dimensional as well.
I simply think our approach is wrong. Yes, I agree with you on the token Asian or the BFF. As an example, a rom-com with a non-Asian female lead and the love interest is Asian. (okay, we can stop laughing now, point out how absurd it is, but really, when we get down to it, why not?) The cop drama with a non-stereotypical Asian partner. If it’s written with no background in mind really, then cast it against the norm.
The Golden Dragon massacre is a good start. Yes, I would whole-heartedly agree an Asian Godfather would be great. But, someone needs to write it. And at the end of the day, I think we both would agree, it’ll probably not do quite as well as we want it to, unless the chips are in our corner. And by that, to avoid being vague, the right story, the right director, financing to boot and some backing for distribution.
442nd Go For Broke has been done. (Only the Brave (2006)). I put good money that if Spielberg did it, we’d have something. This is actually a very good topic in particular. We’re talking about one of the most decorated unit in WWII, full of controversy and great story. They saved other units during their campaign at great risk. Not enough recognition there. As obsessed as Spielberg has been with WWII, you’d think he’d want to tell that story. Shit, a follow-up to Band of Brothers. But I digress…
Okay, back to the start small, the numbers, etc… I’ll be blunt in saying I have no major issues with the idea of casting outside Asians. I have no issues with dealing with matters that aren’t “Asian.” So, with that in mind… I am referring to creating a film that isn’t so centric. Yes, Kang is a good model. His stuff is great. Right now? He’s still doing his thing. So that light hasn’t faded. Even his stuff tends to have an all-Asian cast. Now, some can hate on me for pointing that out as a flaw, but it can be. I think branching out and broadening what we’re selling here is key.
You’re probably right about Wong Fu and Higa. Although, I have no idea how that model works, so for all I know, they could very well be raking it in from the ads.
Now, after this back and forth on what my opinion is, where do you think we start?
Keeping in mind, I feel this industry is screwed up and needs a change. But at the same time, I am still the type that just wants to tell a good story and have it made. It may seem like a cop-out, but the “take what I can get” mentality at the moment is about all we got.
what’s your background Mr. A? seems like you know quite a bit about the movie biz. any opinions on how to get Asians out there? the yomyomf interpretations page had some interesting opinions, but it’s still not comprehensive…
and if I knew where we should start then I’d be the Asian Tyler Perry, wouldn’t I? lol minus the blaxploitation of course.
but truthfully, I think the youtubers are headed in the right direction. the VOD model remains to be seen; and perhaps some sort of “donation” system for self distribution? I have no clue.
I’m with you on the making a good story and hustling to get it out there. it’s cliche, but content is king.
I got no qualms with your notion of “colorblind casting” either, if that’s what’s needs to be done to get it out there. However, at some point I think the issues that are unique to APA still needs addressing.
I saw Lane Nishikawa’s movie when it first came out and thought it was decent. The same goes for SHANGHAI KISS, or several of the Asian gangster movies that have been out. It’s like I wait for the followup and there’s nothing.
What happened? They recouped their costs, right?
and that leads to the discussion of “talent” – which I’m not sure what you have in mind. is it too Asian to strive for perfection where none exists in the arts?
Sure, there are no APA actors like Song Kang-ho or directors like Wong Kar Wai, but I would argue that APAs don’t get the same practice as the Asians – out of tens of thousands of filmmakers you get the few cream of the crop. There are many many terrible Korean soap operas (“kimchi scented kleenex fiction” lol).
what’s your opinion “talent” and how APA can improve our game?
@Chunk
I am primarily in distribution for Home Entertainment but delve in production on various levels of involvement. I am not cornered into the Asian American market but the company I am with is very friendly to it. We are rich with contacts in this community, but it’s a long term strive to change things. We’ve been at this battle since Yellow was shot back in 1997 (pre-dating Justin’s BLT).
It’s a tough business across the board. Especially right now. In particular for smaller companies like ourselves.
This concept we are dealing with will be long fought and hard won. It’s simply my opinion that we attempt to focus on broader issues but still maintain Asian faces in the features. I think we are burning our tires in place if we simply focus on “white” media being the problem or pointing out what’s wrong without a solution. It’s a struggle. But we can get there. It’s clear to us that the audience that we refer to as “ours” isn’t helping us out. Then we broaden that audience.
For example, if I shot a $100k horror flick with two main co-stars, and one of them just happens to be Asian, just because we cast it that way, I feel that’s a start.
If I shot a drama with several co-stars and one or two happen to be Asian, yet minus all the stereotypical BS, I think that’s a start.
Then, if I were to shoot an additional film, with two co-stars, and the protagonist is Asian while the other happens to be something else, I would think this is the next step.
For instance, and not to knock him, Kang shot the Motel with a predominantly Asian cast. I think overall, the demographic was narrowed at that point when some of the faces could’ve easily been something else.
On the other side of that, is The People I Slept With by Quentin Lee. He could have easily compiled an all-Asian cast, every guy the protag slept with could have been Asian. Her best gay friend, could have been Asian. Whether or not that actually changes anything remains to be seen. It’s only been on Netflix Streaming for a short period now.
Lastly, I blame a lot on distribution. All the rants we have about the industry boils down to distribution. Stuff gets made, shot and completed, hits the fests and some of it is actually pretty good. But where does it go then? We each hope it gets picked up for distribution. But clearly, that’s rare. And when I say distribution, I refer to theatrical. Home entertainment is a no brainer. You got the rights? I can distribute it.
The are other factors too, when it comes to completed projects. Money gets tied up, rights get tied up. It happens. It’s fucked up, but it happens. Then no distribution is had and the title sits. So, begins the business side of it and all the crap that it comes with.
It’s pretty extensive, where we run into problems. But hey, I’m on the front lines, and I’m fucking trying.
How about you? What’s your connection?
hey, Mr. A. how extensive is your company’s involvement with production and distribution? I’m definitely going to look you up if whenever i get something made. ~__^
as far theatrical distribution goes: would you say that’s true for everything out there right now and not just the little indie movies? there have been plenty of studies on how attendance has been steadily dropping, since the introduction of HD and blurays?
I’m still of the opinion that it’s not there’s no support from “our audience” as much it is there’s no content that really has caught on with stories and themes that struck a chord with APAs. I just saw this post on 8Asians about how even overseas people are watching it:
http://www.8asians.com/2011/04/26/what-asian-american-and-asian-kids-watch-on-the-internet-wong-fu%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9cstrangers-again%e2%80%9d/
And it satisfies your criteria of being incidentally Asian. In fact, I’d say there’s been a tidal wave of Asian sidekicks/BFF in recent movies. It’s nice to see, but a $100K horror movie is not as exciting as say the APA version of CITY OF GOD.
I have heard of news from friends and online that some APA filmmakers are distributing their movies back to Asia? It’s particularly true for the Korean-Americans, but I thought there was stuff planned for the Chinese market too?
Thanks for all your efforts trying to get the APA voices out there. Although it seems like the old adage “nobody knows anything” is still true…
as for me, I’m just another internet armchair critic and sometimes participant in pounding the pavement – have seen and read too much info, but don’t really believe I have a chance at it since I’m pretty contrarian to the status quo of APAs. I’ve got plans for stuff, but one step at a time to reach my goals. =)
your company looking for materials? lol
I just saw this on the Onion and thought it’s hilarious as usual:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/people-who-produce-american-culture-warning-nation,20101/?utm_source=recentnews
this is not only true, but especially true for APA filmmakers.
that’s what I mean by I’m contrarian: if you search for the videos section for the recently posted 5 year old screenwriter for an upcoming movie you’ll understand why I was literally ROFLMAO for 5 minutes while seeing it.
at least I’ve learned enough EQ through the years to not post a direct link.
I’m not saying that there is “no” support, per se, but very little and it’s not enough to help us.
One factor that remains, is we are a collective of different cultures. Pooling us together as one is ineffective.
Yes, we are ready and willing for Home market distribution. As far as production goes, it’s a tight place.
I’m not sure I agree with the adage you noted, from my standpoint, I know enough.
Best of luck to you. Companies like ours are there and ready to go when creative has their stuff ready.
I guess I’m not buying it there’s “little support” until I see the numbers.
according to a more recent thread here, FF5 is sold out (in the good sense) and all the festivals are pretty full.
I guess the thing is to still keep on hustling. =)
Thanks for fighting the good fight.
Thanks Philip for the behind-the-scenes breakdown of your post-All American Girl experience. It’s such a difficult place to be for “us” in that we can’t just blindly support all Asian American works (especially if it’s crap), yet at the same time, we have to really choose our battles otherwise we self-sabotage our attempts at progress. From your story, it sounds like AAG was a pretty big nail in the coffin and that nail has held us back for a long time. I mean, how cool would it have been to have an AA NPH-like character on a mainstream show back then? More than likely, things would look a helluva lot better today. A lot of great points here in the comments. I agree with writing great stories that aren’t bogged down too much with culture and are just mainstream stories all around. Get some good actors in there and make it appealing to a broader audience. Easier said, I know. But it’s something we can aim for.
“Not enough marketable talent” – I kind of agree here. But it’s like the chicken and egg: Is the talent not as skilled because of the lack of opportunities to flex those muscles? Or are there no big opportunities because the talent isn’t skilled? I’m sure it’s more complex than that but it seems to be a vicious cycle. How many years can an AA actor go on training and training only to get Thug #2 with 3 words of dialogue? We definitely need some positive change. Thanks all for a great discussion and yes, fighting that good fight.
I read most of the comments here, not all cause I got bored about a 3rd of the way down, but I wanted to add my two cents.
I’m an African American girl and I really don’t see a problem with Tyler Perry’s work (aside from the occasional bad film). I don’t think it is “coonery” or “bufoonery.” It’s comedy so yes a lot of the films are going to be silly, but I don’t think Tyler is doing anything wrong as a Black filmmaker. This is how he chooses to express his art. Spike Lee’s choice is of a different flavor. It’s not as though Tyler Perry has made up these characters in his films and now suddenly this is how the world sees Black people, or this is how Black people now act. No. He does, in fact, portray truth. SOME Black people do talk/behave/live the way he portrays in his films. Simply put it is a matter of art imitating life.
Fact is, in the movie/TV business it is almost always art imitating life. When race stops being an issue in real life, race won’t be an issue in films. I mean that in terms of both the content of the films and the politics of filmmaking.
It only matters that Tyler Perry portrays Black people one way and Spike Lee portrays Black people another way because race matters. It only matters that Asians are portrayed this or that way in films because race matters. The moment race stops mattering in society is the moment it won’t matter in films either. And I mean that in terms of not only content, and the politics of filmmaking, but also in the perception of the viewers. They won’t think “hey that’s how Black people act,” or “Hey, that’s not how Korean people act,” because it wouldn’t matter that the characters onscreen were Black or Korean.
Obviously, that’s easier said then done because how do you dispense of these ideas of culture which have been deep rooted in the minds of people for so many centuries?
But think about it: in a country where everybody is the same race, say Korea, the people aren’t saying “Hey, that’s not how Koreans act!” Why? Because everybody is the same race, and therefore it just does not matter. And that’s the goal I think we as Americans need to work towards; the point at which we begin to see ourselves as one race (the human race) and disregard skin color. In fact, I think that’s the goal we’re already working towards with the amount of blending of the races/cultures/ethnicity (whatever) that is going on today, like it or not.
@Shakeitta:
I agree completely, and if you read my comment and a few others here, we’re saying “about” the same thing. Coming back to Lee & Perry, you may have a point in that one director views African Americans one way, while another one is illustrating another slice of it, and there’s simply a disagreement between the two over which should be more representative. As you said, it’s “Art imitating life.”
Regardless of race, I think what we all need to do is just tell a common or universal story or theme in a unique way that involves all kinds of folks either in front of or behind the camera. Like you said, there aren’t any thematic or cultural issues with films from mostly homogenous nations (your Korea example is pretty spot on), but it gets harder especially once you get to the U.S. of A. What I’m pointing out to APA filmmakers is just what I said earlier, focus on a universal story and feature a diverse cast that doesn’t need to “force” race into the issue while disrupting the balancing act that you need to maintain to illustrate a story (again, I’m oversimplifying stuff, but that’s just my take).
Hi, Kane. I completely agree with the universal themes and not spoon feeding racial issues – however, that seems to only be forced upon people of color in order to not offend white audiences.
If you’re a white writer/director you can make a hackeneyed movie with arbitrary stereotypes and flippant characterizations and win the Oscar and called a genius.
And of course, in CRASH only the Asians are still completely one dimensional caricatures by the movie’s end.
This issue is pretty interesting about the filmmakers representing themselves. it maybe doesn’t have to take a rocket scientist to know about stereotypes exist in life.
let’s be honest, any(if not every) race, ethnic group, or tribe has a stereotype one way or another and i think it can be real ironic how a person of a certain group bemoans about being perceived a certain way but yet follow the stereotype as it is.
but as a african american myself, i can relate that it is profounding for both tyler perry and spike lee showcasing different perspectives of the lives of african americans but at least they’re showing them from their perspectives.